ACTU boss Sally McManus has been repeatedly pushed to reveal what she knew and when about alleged criminal behaviour in the CFMEU in a fiery ABC TV exchange.
Following reports of bikies acting as union delegates, including one earning $250,000 a year as a health and safety officer, Ms McManus told 7.30 host Sarah Ferguson that she had ‘heard rumours’ about CFMEU’s relationship with bikies.
Before the reports were aired over the weekend, the controversial CFMEU head John Setka resigned from the union secretary position he had held for 12 years.
As a photo of Ms McManus smiling alongside Mr Setka and his then wife Emma Walters reemerged, the Australian Council of Trade Unions secretary said she was not aware of alleged criminal behaviour in the CFMEU.
‘I had heard rumours around the place but after (the) 60 Minutes (program), it’s well and truly on the table about what is happening,’ she said on Tuesday night.
‘And once you know that organised crime is actually in a union, you’ve got to take measures to do everything you can to get rid of it.’
Ferguson pushed her on what she did when she heard those ‘rumours about the involvement of organised crime in the construction division of the CFMEU?’
But Ms McManus rejected that categorisation, saying that she ‘never heard rumours of organised crime being involved.
ACTU head Sally McManus is pictured with John Setka of the CFMEU and his then wife Emma Walters
‘There were Facebook posts of people that people allege were bikies or used to be bikies.’
Ms McManus said she raised those issues with the ‘relevant leaders’ of the CFMEU at the time and ‘made it very clear that there’s no place for this in our union movement’.
This didn’t satisfy the tenacious Ferguson though, who persisted with her tough line of questioning.
‘Did you do anything more than just raise the existence of Facebook pages? Did you report them to police or other authorities,’ she asked.
‘At that time there was no allegations of any wrongdoing. The allegations of wrongdoing came out on Sunday night,’ Ms McManus replied.
Ferguson again pushed back, in even stronger terms.
‘Are you saying in those reports you heard and the action you took, no further detail was brought to you or to (CFMEU national secretary Zach) Smith about the involvement of members or associates of bikie gangs in the activities of the CFMEU?’
Ms McManus said ‘No information whatsoever was brought to me about that before the allegations had been aired by (60 Minutes).’
But the 7.30 host still did not let up, asking if the ACTU boss had ‘been ignoring allegations made against the CFMEU because you were fearful of the union’s power and influence’.
‘Of course not,’ an angered Ms McManus said. ‘Here I am saying we will stand up against organised crime.’
When Ferguson continued to press the point, Ms McManus said ‘I’ve given you those answers’, adding ‘Sarah, it might surprise you (but) I don’t know much about bikie gangs …
‘That’s not my area of expertise. When people have pointed out a Facebook post that’s got a picture of someone in it that they alleged was connected to this or that, I raised that immediately with people. I didn’t know myself whether that was true.’
There was a mixed response online to Ferguson’s dogged pursuit of the story by repeatedly rephrasing the same question.
‘Sarah Ferguson proved she’s a real journalist. We would not be having this conversation if she had raked Dutton over the coals, would we,’ one person wrote on X.
ABC’s Sarah Ferguson (pictured) was dogged in her interview with the ACTU’s Sally McManus on Tuesday night
CFMEU boss John Setka (pictured) stepped down from his role last Friday night
Another wrote that ‘Sarah Ferguson is a treasure … No matter the political background we should hold our parties and organizations to account for wrong doing.’
But some thought the ABC host was too strident and went too far.
‘It was a train wreck for Sarah Ferguson. Not for Sally McManus,’ one person wrote.
Another wrote that Ferguson ‘persisted in pushing unfounded assertions’.
